a teenager. i'm kind of that i don't get to, you know, meet his wife or meet his kids or, you know -- >> share all at the adult things we've had an opportunity to share with each other. but i think when i get rid of those, like, base feelings, the underlying feeling is just of gratitude that he was in my life, even for a brief moment in time. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ it's sad morning to you. welcome to morning joe: weekend. let's jump into some of the most important conversations we had with key news makers this week. we begin with the supreme court agreeing to consider former president trump's claim of presidential immunity in his

federal election interference case. in a brief order, the court said it would hear arguments in april, but it could take months for the court to issue an opinion. in the meantime, jack smith's case is on hold, meaning no trial can take place and even if the supreme court ultimately rules against trump, the intervention puts the trials start date in question. in essence, some would say, given him immunity, possibly. joining us now, msnbc chief legal correspondent and anchor of the beat on msnbc, ari melber. state attorney for palm beach county florida, darren ehrenberg, i'm going to ask you the same question. they've, all start with you. were you surprised at this really? >> i was shocked, mika. the five justices who granted the state through sand in the years of justice and they further delegitimized the supreme court in the eyes of so many. chief justice roberts cares deeply about the perception of

the high court. he wants people to believe that they are above politics. that is why it's mystifying to me that they put their hands on a hot stove here. the dc circuit court of appeals path decision was powerful. it was comprehensive. it was convincing. visible issue of absolute immunity is an easy one. it's illegal layup. there is a reason why we let the crown 2050 years ago, we have a president, not a king. the whole issue is a certain loser for trump. he wins by losing because now it is unlikely that the case will go to trial before the election , not impossible, just unlucky. even though the mar-a-lago's case, mika, in my mind, as a prosecutor, is the strongest case, judge cannon has slotted. the d.c. kids had the right judge and experience, no nonsense judge chutkan was built with speed, only four counts and no other codefendants. not even jacks mitt, prosecutors prosecutor can ensure that the rule of law will prevail. so, a lot of the blame here goes to the supreme court, mika.

but some of that is also on the shoulders of risk averse merrick garland. >> so, ari melber, do you agree? we shot? in a way, one of our guests earlier in the show said, this sort of gives him immunity in some ways. >> yeah. the question of other guess, as he said, they've mentioned, the whole thing is whether this is going to be a process that holds donald trump accountable. accountable doesn't mean he has to be convicted. doesn't mean he's guilty. it means a day in court. if a jury of his peers acquits him, good for him. that's the system. if he's convicted, then the rest of the united states can understand through this process what it means that somebody got caught trying to steal an election and how to be accountable before the next one. the supreme courts action, in all likelihood, based on what we know about the calendar, prevents that from happening. so, you're having a debate over whether there should be a trial at the supreme court preventing a trial, that short circuits the debate. i think, to put it in english,

the court things it's being savvy, that it can ultimately rule against trump and say, see how even-handed we are? in a way, does the supreme court thinking that the rest of us are stupid. that we don't pay attention. that we can't figure it out. the it will be illegal cloud of smoke. in a way, it's very obvious from how the court is acting on this one, that they are trying to game at. they think they can do the optics, the pr on it. they can still claim after that even though they prevented a trial, they still support trials. it's double talk, if we get there. we will see what they say. i think many might see through it. >> so, it's so interesting, but the, way we have jonathan lemire, mark chronicle still with us and elise. jonathan, i just want -- it so interesting. for example, i respect the court and i doubt that they will come out. i think they will come out in from spavor with the colored apiece, who knows? but in this case, it was -- is

the president immune from having ordering s.e.a.l. team six to take out one of his opponents? this is not a question that it seems needs a lot of pondering. i don't know if i'm oversimplifying thanks. >> yeah, the generous approach to this is they felt it was a weighty matter that they had to wait and. that the answers were obvious. they had to put the stamp of the highest court of the land on it. in terms of tactics, we are in a campaign here, this is going to slow things down. most legal experts we found on the show this morning have suggested that they don't think that even if the supreme court acts with some haste, the here arguments in april, decision comes in june, they don't think it will be feasible to get a trial in place before the election. judge chutkan has promised trump side plenty of time to prepare. mike particle, there's been this thought among democrats that donald trump always seems to get away with it. and this seems apiece towards

him once again getting away with it. there are four trials. he's facing four trials. at this point, one, the new york case, which is the least serious of the cases, can happen this year. it seems like the fate of this election and the faith, potentially, of our democracy, is not going to be decided in his courtrooms. it's one to be in the campaign trail. >> i think you are absolutely right about that. you know, our, off of jonathan's question that he just pose -- one of the thoughts that has been rolling through my diseased mind for the last 24 hours is, how did we get here? when you consider over the last eight years the damage that has been done to the true direction of the united states of america 's enormous. yesterday's newsday, i would submit, was packed with irony. it begins in the morning with the announcement by mitch mcconnell, when he is retiring.

mitch mcconnell who beg knighted states supreme court, who fixed the supreme court, prevented a president of the nasdaq from naming a supreme court justice. mitch mcconnell, who, with a single wave of his hand could have resulted in getting donald trump impeached and thus taken off of the board in terms of being still candidate for president of the united states. then, we have the supreme court decision yesterday. we have the timeframe involved. the alleged crime was committed on january 6th, 2021. it took an enormous amount of time for merrick garland and the department of justice to retain jack smith as special prosecutor . over a year's time is lost between the time of the original crime, the alleged crime, and when the special

prosecutor took office. now, we have the supreme court trying to come up with an answer, to muster now they will start arguments over it, and an answer to something that, i wonder, has ever been posed before. does a president of the united states have the right to immunity if he shoots and kills someone on fifth avenue? where are we? where are we going here? some >> great questions, mike. where are we? we are in a tough spot. not just politically, without you may feel about trump or the other candidate. as a republic, i think people can feel. that some people throw their hands and there's a redoubling of efforts. where are we? cheating is affective. that's what a lot of people cheat. violence is affective. our earlier segment about putin and we are talking about this right now, violence can't work. it was violence that has now

been convicted as addition that actually delayed the certification of president elect biden. general six was, in fact, not a failed plot, it was a plot that resulted in the certification happening later than a constitutional requirement of the sixth. could've been even later than that. there were two bombs placed at both party headquarters that did not go off. the supreme court threw mcconnell and other means, does not reflect anything like a relationship with the peoples votes over the years. so, all of these things have accrued up. cheating and other attacking's have been rewarded. whether donald trump is significantly tied to a deliberate criminal intent on january 6th is supposed to be a legal question. by which i mean, as because, that i don't think it should be resolved by local politicians on the ballot issue. i don't think it should be resolved at the voting booth because many people may cheer

on anti democratic efforts by their side. we've seen that in america before. it's supposed to be resolved in the courtroom. now, we have the highest court in the lansing, wait, we are going to get involved to make sure it probably doesn't get resolved in the courtroom. that's why this has that orwellian double talk, hypocritical flavor. that's why it's a big problem. is their solution to it? not in the short run. in the long run, we, as a country, have to look at certain conditions and norms and figure out which ones still work today and which may have been so easily, handily beating through a cheating, you know, level of video game play by trump and others where you say, oh, founders didn't expect someone quite like this. they didn't have the rules quite like this. the supreme court seems to think that their pr, their effort to say they got involved, is more important than actually letting the courts have their say. that's an ironic and deeply

hypocritical position if that's where they planned. >> dave, elise here, is there any legal reasoning that i'm missing on why this case is delayed and why this supreme court seems to be slow walking this a little bit? >> elise, it is maddening because the supreme court knows that there is a consequential election in november, yet they showed no urgency in setting the date of moral argument for april 22nd. more cynical view answer to your question is to interpret the supreme court decision ends under various act of putting their thumb on the skill to benefit their favorite candidate. i'm not sure i want to go that far, but it is disturbing. when trump needed an expedited moral argument for his colorado case, the supreme court complied. when trump wanted to delay the d.c. case to avoid basing that music, the supreme court here complied. first, back in december, the court blocked jackson's attempt to skip over the d.c.'s court

of appeals and go straight to the supreme court. then, when the supreme court finally got the case, they sat on their decision for two weeks. when they will not only did they grant the review, they also granted a stay, which they didn't have to. they rejected jacks mitt proposal of a moral argument in march and settled on this april 22nd date, which is that last week that the court is scheduled to hear arguments this time. my favorite drummer in the world, the late nil perk once said, if you choose not to decide, you will still not have made a choice. delay is a choice. when the supreme court wants quickly, it does. like in 2000, it consciously chose the opposite here. it's abundantly clear that there is no one coming to save the democracy, only devote -- voters can do that. >> we have a lot more to get to this hour. morning joe: weekend continues after a short break. after a short break. better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't.

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will be stepping down as the upper chambers republican this november and leaving the senate at the end of his term in 2026. the 82-year-old mcconnell explained his decision on the senate floor. >> one of lives most under appreciated talents is to know when it is time to move on to lives next chapter. i stand before you today, mr. president and my colleagues, to say this will be my last term as republican leader of the senate. i'm immensely proud of the accomplishments i have played some role in obtaining for the american people. i still have enough gas in my tank to thoroughly disappoint my critics. i intend to do so with all be a busy other with which they've become accustomed. >> elected to the senate from kentucky in 1984, mcconnell has

led the gop caucus since 2007, making him the longest serving party leader and the senate's history. jonathan martin, your writing about this. what is the reaction, first of all, to his announcement? also, who are the contenders waiting in the wings, potentially, to replace him? >> well, their reaction is not surprise on the news, but surprise on the timing, i, think which widely assumed he would step down from his leadership post after the elections this fall. but the fact that he revealed this and february, just two months into the new year, i think speaks to the political challenges that he is facing. this has not been a pleasant season for mitch mcconnell. somebody he despises, donald trump, is about to become his party's nominee for the third consecutive campaign. his party has moved towards isolationism that he finds, frankly, revolting. he is, perhaps, most painfully of all seeing his own power

ebbing and the senate. he has coveted beating senate leader for years and years. filing the job answer, obviously breaking the record, as the longest senate leader only to see his power really sort of slow at the end as a handful of younger colleagues have challenged him. it's not been pleasant for him. i think he's trying to get ahead of the jailer here, if you will. he's trying to go out on his own terms. he doesn't want to be forced out by either a doctors orders or a rebellion of his colleagues. he's trying to do it now and make the best of a tough situation. look, there are three obvious figures who are looking at this in the current senate. they're all named john. the name is easy for us. john bristle of wyoming, john cornyn of texas, and john thune of south dakota. i think it's more complicated of that. that's the short and, mika. i think that this is hugely contingent on who wins the presidential election. if trump wins, this is still his party.

i think he wants to have a say in who the next later. is he could find somebody beyond the three johns. if trump loses, and this is purely a choice of the senators, i think john thune gets off the bench. >> john, let's hear about john mcconnells -- mcconnells relationship with trump. it consistent, he didn't vote to convict trump in that second impeachment trial. >> yeah. >> which had, he got both there, donald trump would not be running for office right now. he's also said he probably would endorse him again. but it seems, speaking about his time, what he's meant to the upper change burr, it seems his impact would have been on the judiciary. >> yeah, if you see the sweep of his career in the senate, there is no landmark piece of legislation that he is really connected to. he's going to be best known and history for how he shaped the supreme court. he set on one nomination for almost a year and move the second within a matter of weeks. i think getting that 6 to 3

conservative majority on the court, i think, is central to his legacy. that's the great irony. because the man he despises, he will go down in history linked to -- they are the conjoined twins of the modern gop, donald trump and mitch mcconnell, because those are the judges that, of course, trump put forward and mcconnell confirmed, that have so shaped this court. by the way, the same george's that overturned roe v. wade, probably assured mcconnell bolster final two leaders as leader in the minority. >> jonathan, is it a done deal that he will still endorsed trump? how soon are you hearing that it will be? could this possibly -- could he possibly keep it out there, loaded, hold on for a bit? >> yeah, i heard in my column today, politico about this, he's going to want to support trump, it's a went, not at. mr. connell is a man of the senate. he's also a party meant. he is a partisan through and through.

politics for him is first, second and third. he is going to get on board with the nominee. i don't see any enthusiasm. he must retake control of the senate. i think he recognizes being divided party is going to undermine his party's chances of taking back control of the senate. so, he wants to have the party singing with one voice about the nominee. he's going to do that. i think mcconnell knows that would happen in 2016 with trump critic challenges for his party. he points to be on board with walking away from that leadership with a majority, rather than a minority. >> next -- legal experts wiseman and andrew drying us with laying out the historic nature of the multiple indictments against of former u.s. president. r u.s. president. choose safelite? we're always working on a project. while loading up our suv, one extra push and... crack! so, we scheduled at safelite.com. we were able to track our technician and knew exactly when he'd arrive.

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with nurtec odt, i can treat a migraine when it strikes and prevent migraine attacks, all in one. don't take if allergic to nurtec. allergic reactions can occur, even days after using. most common side effects were nausea, indigestion, and stomach pain. ask about nurtec odt. if you spit blood when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. good afternoon. >> >> good afternoon. >> thank you for joining us. >> donald trump was arraigned on a new york supreme court

indictment. >> citizens of the southern district of florida, here in the district of columbia -- >> fulton county grand jury returned a true bill of indictment. >> 34 felony counts of falsifying business records. >> felony violations of our national security laws, conspiring to defraud the united states. >> criminal racketeering, enterprise to overturn georgia's presidential election result. >> we, today, uphold our solemn responsibility to ensure that everyone stands equal before the law. >> we have one set of laws in this country and they apply to everyone. their evidence can be tested in court and judged by jury and citizens. >> we look at the facts, the law, we bring charges. >> the prosecutors, four jurisdictions, 91 felony counts. donald trump facing a mountain of legal trouble. all while he seeks to take back the white house ahead of his first criminal trial in new

york over alleged hush money payments said to begin march 5th, prosecutors there are requesting a partial gag order against former president. manhattan d.a. allen bragg's office filed yesterday, trump's previous attacks against judges, juries, court staff, quote, pose a significant and imminent threat to the orderly administration of this criminal proceeding at a substantial likelihood of causing material prejudice. criminal charges against trump are the subject of the new book titled the trump indictments, the historic charging documents with commentary. joining us now are the books coauthors, msnbc contributor and stokes professor at new york university school of, lot melissa murray, and nbc legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, andrew weissmann. good to see you both. boy, do we need this book. there's a lot to keep track. up the fact that this book exists is a commentary on the historic nature of what is happening right now and the man who was president, wants to be president again. so, can you talk first of a

list -- take a step back and what you want to do and accomplish with this book, which is walk us through it again and explain what it all means. >> so, we are live professors and we come on at night on msnbc and explain the law to your viewers. this is a moment where americans are going to be watching these trials and they may not have a lot of grays, they don't practice on a lot of areas. how do they make sense of these indictments? how do they make sense of these unprecedented times? we wanted to collect all of these indictments to really granular ali annotate them so people could follow along and understand what the trials, meant what was going on during the trials, what the indictment charges mean. and then related back to their own understanding of what these historic times mean for them as they go to the ballot box in november two likely weigh in on whether or not they, a jury of peers, are going to accept this person as their president going forward. >> it's difficult enough for us , andrew, to cover it. even you, as a brilliant legal analyst, to keep track of all of this, people living their

lives, okay, another two things going on in new york, his businesses, hash money pavements, there's georgia, you have the federal cases. it's just a lot to wade through. >> exactly. the idea is you have this manhattan case starting, you can turn to the manhattan chapter. we hear the charges. what do they mean? what does the language mean? how do you put it in context? so that you have. this who are the people with a cast of characters? there is such an important moment now than what is happening in the courts is so relevant to what is happening, sort of, in the real world, as melissa said, and the decision everyone's going to have to make. our job, as we do daily, is to try to translate that for people. so, this is really trying to demystify that process so people keep saying, okay, i know what's going on. >> professor mary, let's turn to some of the cases and let start with the one that is on the horizon. that new york case, bash money case. just, now listen a month away from scheduled to start, what are if you things that you have

in here that we need to know? >> so, i think one thing that is really interesting about the new york and manhattan d.a.'s case is that it's an amuse- bouche for what comes later. i think alvin bragg has been talking about it this way to. this is a speed sees of election interference, pay someone hush money in order to keep an indiscretion not only from your wife, but also from the american electorate. that's what's alleged in this indictment. we connect these dots. it's even bigger, i think, from the take hush money trial makes it up to be. this is a situation where you are not only paying hush money, falsifying business records to do that, allegedly. you are also involving media titan, that national inquirer, as part of this catch and kill scheme to keep these indiscretions from the american public. you see this laid out in manhattan d.a.'s indictment. it's going to play out in the trial. more partly, it also relates to what later comes in the other indictments and the other trials that may also happened because this is sort of a

precursor to what is charged in those other indictments, again, election interference, only this time, on a much broader scale. >> andrew, as you point out in the book, some of these checks are elective been, signed by donald john trump, while he was president of the united states. we know that his defense team is filing all sorts of -- and michael cohen off of the witness stand and on, on, on. how do you see this playing out? >> it was really interesting, when we were writing this, we were noticing that this is about criminality that is charge for before he was president, while he was president, and after he was president. i mean, this is an incredible array of crimes. let's keep the florida case where he recently filed another motion saying that he is 1 million. of course, that happened after he was president. if you think the d.c. case was outlandish to say i can kill people without being held criminally count that. this is essentially saying in a case after his president, oh,

you know what, i can do that. i suspect you would like to say, even before us president, i can do it. those are not great arguments. they buy him something, which is delay. leaving aside what happens in terms of whether it's conviction or not, one of the things that will happen that, obviously, donald trump does not want to happen, is there will be effects. backs laid out in court for people to see, for us to cover, so that was the public is saying is not just donald trump 's spin and what he wants is a publicly, which maybe falls. this is one where we will be incumbent on the government to prove its case, but there will be a daily drip, drip, drip up factual evidence from the manhattan case and in the d.c. case, when that goes. i do suspect both of those will happen before the election. >> melissa, andrew mentioned georgia. that case has been mired over

the past couple weeks over fani willis splitting the dinner bill on a trip to belize with somebody who pay cash for what. taking a step back, the evidence and the case, there's a phone call. there's a phone call where the president is asking for the election to be overturned and secretary of state denying him in his request. we can talk about the penniless question first. does that hurt this trial? if not, how strong is the case against donald trump there? >> so, again, it's really important to understand that the ethical accusations, allegations made against fani willis are typically anna or not the. when you have prosecutorial misconduct, it's usually about violations with regard to prosecutor having a relationship with the juror or a litigant, or the judge. not with someone else on her own team. so, by itself, that was really unusual. again, money is fungible. if they've been waiting for something, he is reimbursed, it's not like he got this job so that he could take fani

willis to belize. yes, the optics of it are bad. they are intentionally bad because the endgame here is because this case is so strong, because there is that phone call with raffensperger, that this case was actually one that could result in serious criminal time for donald trump and the 18 other defendants and we have seen from the beginning and effort to limit her 30 as prosecutor. there was a formal administrative effort to do that. it failed. now, we are turning to this ethical quagmire that has been jammed up. it could result in her disqualification. i don't know that it will. i don't know it rises to that level. at the very least, it does muddy the waters, puts some chin in the waters in georgia. that might make it more difficult for her to prosecute this case before a jury of 12 men and women, who have to weigh these charges. >> andrew, the cases from the headlines are the unclassified documents. there are some valid basins why that was moving martially because they are classified documents, clears issues. the former president also drew

pretty trump friendly judge. what is your assessment and what is does the book tells about that case? does remain, perhaps, the most open and shut and so tentative because he could make it go away if he's elected again? >> so, two federal cases, the florida case and the d.c. case, are ones that the president, even if there has been a trial, he can tell the justice department to get rid of it. now, he would need to have court approval to do that. there is limited authority for the courts to say, now. i agree that because they are classified documents, there are reasons of the case would be slower to deal with those issues. i don't think it justifies the pace that it has been going on, which is somewhere between turgid and -- >> glacial? >> yeah. a fuss source of slow. there are now numerous reasons that have been given to judge cannon to keep that very slow pace, including, as i

mentioned, this immunity argument. even though this is conduct that happened after he was president, there's no claim immunity. he will appeal that. the same process that we are seeing now in d.c. is something that we can see in florida. there is ample reason for judge cannon, if she does what she is continuing to do, to slow effect case and essentially have a de facto veto on those charges. >> can i say one more thing about this? this is something we talked about in the book. lots of people are wondering, how did he drug judge cannon again? that's a factor of politics. there are three vacancies on the southern district of florida. the problem is that florida has two republican senators. any time joe biden wants to nominate someone to fill in any of those three seats, there is pushback. >> next -- our conversation with democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia. manchin of west virginia.

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democratic senator, joe manchin of west virginia. joe! it's good to see you, baby. good to see. i guess i should call you senator. so, joe, let's talk about israel gaza, first of all. there are so many americans that have traditionally supported israel. we've been israel's strongest supporter since 1948. at the same time, younger voters, not just west virginia, but across the country, turning on israel because of what they're seeing in gaza. what is the best way forward? >> and i talk to people i think, first of, all do agree that

hamas is a terrorist organization? you understand the deficit definition of terror organization? usually sir civilized -- have disagreements go toward, there are the rules of war. most countries use the war machines to protect their people. terrorist organizations use their people to protect their war machines. this is a horrible situation where women and children, what we're seeing in the carnage. that is their motive operandi. if they want to cease fire, at least a hostage. that is all the negotiating power unit. release all the hostages. demand a cease-fire. sit down and see if you can work it out. if you can't, then we understand what will happen. at least try. it's unreasonable for them, hamas, to believe that there is going to be a cease-fire until they do something and come to the table. you don't, they have not said the two seed solution. they have not come for two- state solution. >> who haven't part is a two- state solution when you have hamas, who has spent since 2005

working against, killing people that actually have talked about working with jews. you have netanyahu has spent the past ten years fighting against the two-state solution. how do we get them? >> it's hard for any of us in america to put ourselves in that position. i think about west virginia. if ohio declared war on west virginia, you know, and they continued to attack us and do things of that sort, what would you do? how would you defend that? what would cause them to stop? you start thinking of something and your backyard. how would you settle it? the person has a commitment that they are going to destroy it no matter when, no matter where or when, that's their determination, they're not going to use a. you're not going to sit down and have a conversation and say, this is how we are drying piece lines. it has to be out willing solution by both. if you have a terrorist organization and you're trying to negotiate with us society, it just doesn't work. and less the muslim world steps

forward, they're going to have to step forward and that part of the world. we cannot as americans brink that piece. we can help negotiate peace. we can't bring it to them. we can't maintain it unless they wanted. >> yesterday, in the oval office, you had the leaders, basically everybody versus my johnson, who is not exactly sure what he wants other than not too upset and pg and a couple of pictures in the house. can you talk about the damage that mike johnson and donald trump and those who are opposing aid to ukraine are inflicting are not only the people of ukraine, but on western democracy right now? >> we were talking just a little bit before you came back on and discussing this moment of time. every elected official, every elected official, has that moment in time when you ask yourself, what is my purpose of serving? my purpose of serving is to protect myself, my political future? or do my job and stand tall? i've come to the conclusion that we need term limits. i've come to that collusion.

i've never have before. there's only one way we're going to get any type of performance. and come to the conclusion, joe, because i was on that town hall in southern west virginia. i loved an elderly lady stood up and 10:15 years ago told me why i should do it. i've seen her by i thought you you lose a lot of expense people in this in. that he's she said, joe, think about. it maybe we get one khartoum out of you. i was told. i had no comeback. i had no defense. she was correct. mark correct today. mike johnson, you know, a moment of, time moment in history for him to make a decision. what is my purpose of serving pickett people of louisiana? why did i compare? to serve my trump country in taken open office to defend and protect the constitution? mike, you have a chance to rise, up to be a hero and the annals of history. to do it and with that right. way if they can't come together -- this purity test, joe, you know how that is. pretty, chest to enter a team democrats. if you have a majority, they all have to vote. turn 18 democrats don't vote, we don't pass it.

if 218 republicans -- those days are gone. the country's two divided. right, now you have to build coalitions. if they get rid of the filibuster in the senate, we're going to lose democracy as we know it because it forces us to get a piece of legislation that can weather the test of time. in-house, they always give us something hot. we paul ryan were talking, later. he says, we always have to -- so you can swallow it in a sense of time. that's what we are. you can't come to that grips. if you have five or ten people, it's going to be the tail wagging the dog, i don't know if i want to be the head of the dog, you know? >> senator, here watching this. when i don't know if it's the lilac tie or something. you are looking fresh. you know? you're looking relaxed and happy talking about time. united conversational well ago. when you are planning what to do with your future and you pointed to the unpopularity of the president. you pointed to the unpopularity

of donald trump and you are wearing at that point whether you would find yourself on a third party ticket. you decided not to, what was the thing that push you to make that decision? >> as you come down to it i would love my country to not support donald trump. i was very honest. i've known, him try to work with, when it comes to the conclusion that that's going to be impossible. with that, i've known joe biden from long time. we have been friends. i think joe has been pushed to far to the left. just trying to do everything a back to center-left. my daughter started to get together. get together. it don't how to use it, because nothing is organized. they're either forced to go -- it's only one side, the american side. there 'sis no democrat or republican side when it comes to defending the constitution. that's what we're trying to, do and get people understanding. i came to the conclusion, i never wanted to be -- i said

that from day one. i would never put myself be a spoiler or handicap on one sideo of the other. i swouldn't do that. i odidn't feel comfortable, it was the right time to see a difference of what i could have a clear path forward, trying to unite the country, other than been taking votes, army one side, that's not what i wanted to do. i had to come to that conclusion. >> the president is running against a challenger who has been impeached twice, facie 91 felony counts, terminating the constitution. the president of the united states is running, even up, us behind a lot of polls, to donald trump. what is the one most important thing he can do? if you were suddenly made in charge of his campaign tomorrow, doing exactly what you want me to do, -- >> we have to take credit for what we have. i don't think you've ever heard, we -- wrote that bill. the bill, for a couple reasons,

first of all, parents security. we're producing more energy today than ever before. more oil, more gas. you can speak about that because he's afraid of losing the far left. of the same time, we're investing ofmore clean technolo for the future. and any time in history. that is all they talk about. so you're not going to get quite if you don't get the whole ball of wax. we're producing more energy today. we're producing more elegy to help our foreign allies to not rely on russian oil. russian -- that's what it takes to have a secure country. if you're not energy dependent, your foreign supply chains are unreliable, that's serious problems. >> next, inside a new book that prized to understand what's ha motivating the politics of many white, rural americans. white, rural americans. etting better with age. here's to beating these two every thursday. help fuel today with boost high protein, complete nutrition you need... ...without the stuff you don't. so, here's to now. boost.

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>> alabama's attorney says he does not intend to prosecute providers of in vitro

fertilization, or the families to undergo the treatments. the comments came just days after. the state supreme court wool that frozen embryos are children. that decision led to several fertility clinics suspending their ivf treatments over fears of prosecution. their republican party is trying to distance itself from the -- senate campaign officials said they will try to use this for electoral gain. candidates express support for ivf. it appears donald trump is now following that advice as he broke his silence on the ruling over the weekend ahead of the primary primary. take a listen. >> like the overwhelming majority of americans, including the vast majority of republican conservatives, christians, and pro-life americans, i strongly support the availability of ivf for couples who are trying to have a precious, little, beautiful

baby. i support it. and today, i'm calling on the alabama legislature to act quickly to find an immediate solution to preserve the availability of ivf and alabama. i'm sure they're going to do that. the republican party should always be on the side of the miracle of life, and the side of mothers, fathers, and beautiful little babies. >> okay. except we're here because of him. the biden harris campaign criticize trump's comments, calling it an attempt to, quote, whitewash the reality that he created. adding that trump overturned roe v. wade and continues to brag about it. this is just, i have heard from so many people about the ivf issue, and the alabama supreme court decision. it's frightening to families that are already going through hell just to have a family. >> yeah, they're spending huge a vote of money to even have that chance.

as we heard in alabama, they get told the next day, this procedure may not go ahead. it's emotionally jarring, it's crippling financially for families. this is something that both republican and democratic voters use. republicans who have had ivf, democrats who've had ivf, in blue states and red states, this is why you have congressman -- on the weekend saying he comes out fully in support of biden. as well, all the processes that ivf entangles. you have donald trump -- they realize this is politically untenable for them because of what's happening in alabama. it is another unintended consequences, perhaps even intended consequence, of the dobbs ruling. it's something they can't control. what happens next? what is the next thing to go? is that the states that are looking at the morning after pill, or looking at iuds. those kinds of things. >> we'll stay on it. >> we have another hour of

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>> welcome back to morning joe: weekend. at 7:00 on this sunday morning. we have a lot more to get you this hour. let's jump right back into some of the week's top stories. >> -- you know it's very interesting, you actually have democrats working with really

conservative republicans to pass the toughest border bill, as far as border security goes. the border security guards that were with joe biden yesterday, they're supporting this as well. when you are talking about persuading people, you've written a book about it, talk about how you use donald trump, and the house republicans cynicism. where they say let the fentanyl, and illegal immigrants and, at the same time, we are going to pass joe biden for being soft on the border. how do you get to those persuasions? >> one of the important things about the persuaded's is that it's not -- to get dragged into having the other sides conversation. to not be stuck in their frame. earlier this year, and late last year, when this started to really heat up, there was a risk of republicans kind of jenin up this moral panic, and

biden and the democrats scramble lane. when you had that moment, when the democrats called the bluff and said, here, we would like to do a very specific thing, a set of things, frankly, that looks like a republican wish list. from some years ago. republicans didn't want to do it. it created an opening to say, we are the people, not only who want to treat immigrants who mainly, as a poll showed, people who believe in a system that respects the idea that people move, people travel, people should be treated humanely when they're seeking freedom from persecution, but also, where the people of order. where the people who want a kind of system that works. we understand that in the age of anxiety, a chaotic border is a very volatile electoral issue. so i think we've seen president

biden be able to claim both the mantle of humanity, and the mantle of order, because of republican stupidity. >> as we look at that, we must remember, anand, that we had a record under president trump of what happened at the border. the crisis at the border started under trump, which he did not resolve in any way. we never saw the wall that he promised, that mexico is going to pay for. we saw children separated from their parents, put in cages. i remember i went down there. i didn't morning joe from the border. the first lady came down, milan a trump, with that jacket on. how do we forget that there was a border crisis under trump, that trump did not solve? that biden inherited. now he's trying to solve what was not solved with his predecessor. >> it's very clear, for donald

trump, the people fleeing persecution, claiming asylum in this country, are not people he wants to help. nor are the people who want a more orderly border. the people he's trying to help our himself and his cronies, his family. he's using this idea of the border to gin up a moral panic. i think that it's, at the same time, incumbent on the democrats to show lots of regular people, who are anxious, that they get it. that they're not oblivious to the fact people have anxiety about, up that are offering solutions, are offering a real system instead of just the politics of resentment and grievance. >> i'm wondering, as we pull back, and we look at the border crisis, and donald trump's refusal to do anything, donald trump's ordering of mike johns and not to do anything, there are house republicans decision not to do anything. the extremists, of the people who are scared of their own, shadow and donald trump in the

senate, are deciding not to do anything with the toughest border security bill that, in the past generation. look at that, and donald trump cynically say, don't pass this. because it will help joe biden if the border is secure. the same donald trump, saying to lou dobbs on national television, i hope the economy crashes, i hope america goes into a great depression, i hope joe biden is the next hubert hoover, because i don't want to be the next hubert hoover. looking back, i just can't think of any modern presidents for a candidate sane, openly sane, i hope america crashes and burns because it will help my political prospects. can you think of any historical precedent? >> no. i can't. that's against my business model, so you can really take it as legitimate.

i think, if i may, i think one of the most important things as been said in the past few minutes was a clip from the former presidents who, as i heard it, talked about the poisoning of our country. right? the poisoning of our country, which is part of his language about vermin, remember. i just think, this is so enormous, and he just throws so much of this out all the time that we've become -- to it somehow. the punitive nominee of the republican party, the 45th president of the united states, just referred to a group of human beans as a source of poison for the united states of america. you can be for a tougher border. i am. you can be for a tougher immigration system that emphasizes legal immigration and does not reward illegal

movement. i am. but to talk about human beans as a source of poison, let's just be very clear, we were told, right? there is no mystery here. if things fall apart, and a significant and lasting way, which is not impossible over the next couple of years, we were told, and i think that if you live in pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, arizona, nevada, pay attention. everybody has to, but let's be practical, there are only a few states where there is a delta of people who can be reached by reason, and not just this elemental paston that the 45th presidents marshals for his own benefit. as you just said, it's entirely for his own benefit. because they don't want to actually solve it.

>> no, they do not. >> for his own benefit, and again, when he talks about vermin, using hitless terminology, uses fascist terminology, talking about the poisoning of america, the poisoning of the blood of america, this isn't him under cutting left-wingers, this is him undercutting conservatives. you, know it's, what do you talk about the wall street journal editorial page which is always supported immigration, or ronald reagan's farewell speech, john. he spent such a great amount of time in his final speech to america saying we are a nation of immigrants. when we close the door to those immigrants, we close the door to our own future. we become older, we've become more tired, we've become less vibrant, and we fail as a nation. there is a reason ronald reagan

started his 1980 campaign in front of the statue of liberty, and ended his presidency nine years later. stressing the vital importance of immigrants to america's history and its future. >> i'm so glad you brought up president reagan. this is, i think, one of the most significant things that's unfolding. i actually hadn't focused on it very much until i had been with liz cheney a couple of times recently. listening to her talk. what happened to reagan's party? that's really a fundamental question. can you imagine ronald reagan sane to moscow, oh, you want ukraine? take it. can you imagine ronald reagan sane, immigrants poisoned the blood of the country? it's just not a plausible

hypothetical, and, you know, we focus so much on the rise of trumpism, and be more recent, this was a long term thing. i haven't quite got my brain around it, but i'm thinking about it, i think everyone should think about it. if your republican of a certain age, you probably became a republican not least because of ronald reagan, in that campaign. can you imagine, it was 44 years ago. scary. he transformed a lot of democrats and two republicans. that's not the party that your a hearing to now. it's just not. you know, you grew up with this as well. what do you think? what happened to reagan-ism? >> a lot of things along the way. reagan-ism obviously wasn't perfect, there were some flaws with reagan-ism.

in the areas that we're talking about, for pushing back against tyranny in europe, talking about inviting immigrants in, i think what happened to it was donald trump. >> we've got a lot more to get to this hour. morning joe: weekend continues after a short break. weekend cs after a short break. if you sd when you brush, it could be the start of a domino effect. new parodontax active gum repair breath freshener. clinically proven to help reverse the four signs of early gum disease. a new toothpaste from parodontax, the gum experts. it's time to feed the dogs real food in the right amount. a healthy weight can help dogs live a longer and happier life. the farmer's dog makes weight management easy with fresh food pre-portioned for your dog's needs. it's an idea whose time has come. detect this: living with hiv, craig learned he can stay undetectable with fewer medicines. that's why he switched to dovato. dovato is a complete hiv treatment for some adults. no other complete hiv pill uses fewer medicines

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>> welcome back to morning joe: weekend. let's pick it back up on the conversation we were having just before the break. >> anand and -- i want you to hear really quickly, i want you to hear the last thing ronald reagan told the american people before he flew west to california into retirement. >> this, i believe, is one of the most important sources of america's greatness. we lead the world because unique among nations, we draw

our people, our strength, from every country and every corner of the world. and by doing, so we continuously renew and enrich our nation, while other countries cling to the stale past, here in america, we breathe life into dreams that we create. we create the future. the world follows us into tomorrow. thanks to each wave of new arrivals to this land of opportunity, where and nation forever young, for every person with energy and new ideas, and always on the cutting edge, always leading the world to the next frontier. this quality is vital to our future as a nation. if we ever close the door to new americans, our leadership of the world would soon be lost. >> would soon be lost. you know, anand, it's so interesting. that was an 89. in 91, 92, you had silicon valley entrepreneur's who were immigrants. you look at intel, you look at

the rise of google, you look at the rise of other tech companies. these were fueled in large part by what ronald reagan said right there. even as ronald reagan was saying that, he was looking at the history from that day, in 1889. he had no idea, few had any idea that it would be a new wave of immigrants that we're about to change the face of america, and the world, with a i.t. revolution. >> you know, it's rare for me to feel the emotion of wanting to smash the retweet button of ronald reagan's words, but what a move in clip you just showed. i think it gets to this notion that we shouldn't be having a defensive conversation about immigration that starts with some amount of border chaos. we should have our own conversation, from first principles, about this is an

extraordinary country, it is an extraordinary for many reasons. among the reasons it's extraordinary is a country built of the world, from the world, from every part of the world, right? i have had the fortune, as a journalist, foreign correspondent, to visit dozens of countries. and i've enjoyed all these countries i've been to. i've actually never been to any other country that truly aspire to be a country made of the world. when you are in france, frances, there are immigrants in france. it is not like the united states. it is not a country made of the world. it is a country with -- a lot of countries in the world, people don't even know, they have birthright, citizenship if you are born there, and your parents are from their. you still don't necessarily become a citizen. -- a friend of mine, chinese american, wrote in a memoir called the china man's chants about his family has been in china thousands and thousands of years, his parents left,

came to america, he said if he wanted to go back and become chinese, he couldn't. 5000 years of loyal, living in china. one or two generations in the united states, becoming chinese is not a thing. becoming indian is not a thing. becoming american is something that we do to 1 million people every year. we've done it under republicans and democrats. my family came here 47 years ago. i think we've had a pretty good run a contribution to this country, except my own. >> please. >> i think we need to not just react to whack-a-mole crises jammed up i fascists. but to actually own this notion that our blood is better with the blood of many people in it, our country is better when more people are here, we have built everything we can because we have every kind of idea, every kind of contribution mixing together. people who don't have a heart, people who are miserly, or people who are cynically trying

to raise money off of hatred don't belong in the american story. >> you know, -- >> that was perfect. >> it's beautiful. you know, embracing this concept. you know, don't play whack-a- mole. i always said, i think it's extraordinary that my family has been and this country probably about 400 years. we have the people in my family, through the years, who have gone through it. they've probably been here 400 years. you know? what i find remarkable is that today, someone will raise their hand, a new immigrant, newly arrived, they will take an oath, and they will become an american at that moment. they will be every bit as american as anyone in my family who have been here for hundreds, and hundreds, and hundreds of years. if you don't think that's

beautiful, then you don't understand america. and rev, speaking of beauty, america beauty, i still think it's remarkable that it was black women, the very people who have the least reason at times, it seems, if you look at our history, to stand up and defend matters sony and democracy, but it was black women in atlanta, it was black women in philadelphia, black women in detroit, black women in wisconsin back in 2020 that i believe, and a lot of people believe, a lot of historians believe, stepped up and saved -- democracy. you talk about just an extraordinary legacy, and the extraordinary this of that. you sought up close, rev. that

is the america we strive to be. not the america of hate that donald trump is trying to promote right now. >> absolutely. i might say black women stood up, voted, stood in line for miles to vote in georgia, and in wisconsin, and other places. many of them believe in an america that they and their parents and grandparents may not have lived in equally, but they breathed in it anyways. as i watch you playing that tape of president ronald reagan. as a young activist, i marched on reagan, i disagreed with reagan. what happened to that reagan? the eloquence that he gave, and the kind of moral standing that he gave in that statement, and in how he dealt with immigration. to go from that to someone that is the stand-in bearer of the same political party talking about people poisoning people,

we need to really look at how did we get here, and how do we return back? i never thought i'd say it, but at least to the era of reagan in the republican party. >> up next, a look at how america's first ladies have helped change the political landscape throughout american history. the political landscape throughout american history. super white teeth. they want that hollywood white smile. new sensodyne clinical white provides 2 shades whiter teeth and 24/7 sensitivity protection. i think it's a great product. it's going to help a lot of patients.

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so, here's to now. boost. >> last year marked the ends -- now, all of a first ladies have served in the 21st century. each camino with unique portfolios -- and their husbands white house. joe biden is the first first lady to hold a full-time job outside of her white house duties teaching english another virginia community college. doctor biden and her fellow first ladies are now the subject of the new book titled, american woman, the transformation of the modern first lady from hillary clinton to joe biden. it's authors, new york times white house correspondent,

katie rogers, joins us now. katie, so exciting. >> thank you for having me. >> what made you, how did you go about the book? i'm fascinated by all these women. what were you looking for? we look at for commonalities, for differences, were you looking for a narrative thread, how did you do it? >> i sort of started with the idea that the 90s was the sort of really transformational decade for young women in particular who had grown up with tales of, you know, what could be possible for them, from their own mothers, equal pay act had passed in the early 60s, roe v. wade had established a constitutional right for abortion. the 80 saw this influx of women into the working world. the 90s really began with the exit of the bushes, and the transfer to the clintons. hillary clinton was, of course, and attorney. she was very ambitious. she was looked at as sort of a coequal with her husband, which was actually her first mistake as first lady, because the

clintons went in, and she was assigned very ambitious policy role in remaking american health care. really, i use her as the first book and for a first lady who came in as an activist, and an ambitious person with goals of policy making. she sort of establishes this third rail for the women who comes after. that is, be an activist, a support of your husband, it is not a coequal role. >> the one that really stands out for me, of all of them, is melania. she seems like the one who didn't even really want to be there. -- had a role in supporting her husband showed more time, michelle obama, perhaps filleted, but stepped up, was visible, had a role as a voice, as the first black first lady. melania trump was invisible, not invisible, but not very bare. >> it was interesting. i talked to one of her former

aide, stephanie grisham, she was former white house press secretary and aide to melania. she said she would tell us all the time, this is our office, we do our own thing. she said we might have pushed it a little too far, but we did establish that this role is voluntary. which is true. you're not paid. there are no actual rules, you can do as little or as much, to a point, i guess, as you want. i think millennia trump did enjoy being the first lady, and liked putting the first lady logo on things, and traveling in her capacity as first lady. she liked a lot less the scrutiny that came with it. she was a headline obsessive, she still is. she trolls the, she trawls, i should, say the internet for the content about her and her husband. she like that a lot less. the ceremonial part, she enjoyed. >> she trolls, or trawls.

trolls are trolls. my wife does that do. so what is so interesting is, you can see it reflected in the first three first ladies of this century as the -- you have people like bill clinton, let's say, nixon, reagan, bush, clinton, they loved washington valley. love being here. they were of washington. they knew how to make washington work. 21st century w was kind of like, well, my daddy lost, maybe i want to be a two term president. i'm simplify in this. you know, this is a guy. he did his job. he went upstairs, watched espn. barack obama came in town, talk to anyone that worked with obama, they tell, you did his job, 6:00, went upstairs, he watched espn. again, a gross

oversimplification but, again, he wasn't bill clinton on the phone at midnight trying to make a deal on the subcommittee in the house. civil service committee. trump was trump. none of these people are creatures of washington. it's sort of reflected in the first ladies as well. mora, wonderful, did what she was supposed to do, but you get the sense, she would rather, you know, be talking to her friends and dallas. same thing with michelle. she hated politics. she didn't even want barack to run for state senator. then melania, let's not get started. none of them liked politics. >> it's interesting, it's interesting you didn't say joe biden. i think the book actually explores him as well. the bidens, for all of joe biden's career, it was never really, they didn't interact in the sauce of washington, you

know? he went home every night. she was rarely in d.c. as a senate spouse. they go home to delaware every weekend. they are insiders but they live this very insular, not outsider, but insular life. so she is sort of in line with that. he is to. in an odd way. in spite of them maybe not ben washington prairie churros, i love the discourse. i think it was below riley recently who said michelle obama would be the best democratic nominee for presidents out of all the first ladies. i wonder if you either picked up any hint of political ambition, or, or after getting to know them better, and their stories, better anyone you think might a bit better presidents than their husband. >> i don't know if i want to touch that. i know both michelle obama is a frequent fantasy and a nightmare, depending on your political persuasion. the main theme with all of

them, as different as they, are is that they all believed their husband could win, and decided that it was his choice, and they were going to go along. i didn't really detect an interest in having that role, except for, you know, maybe the first one. hillary clinton. one of the interesting conversations i had with her for the book was about health care when she told me that she would have stepped aside gladly if she had known that been a first lady pushing a political platform, policy platform, would have been so, you know, controversial, she would've stepped aside. it would've been a dream to see it passed. hindsight is 2020, that was sort of an interest stain vestige of her time there that she had shared. >> coming up, should president biden debate donald trump, the washington post -- joins us to discuss her latest piece. -- joo discuss her latest piece. >> woman: why did we choose safelite? >> vo: driving around is how we get our baby to sleep, so when our windshield cracked, we trusted the experts.

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i eat powerful sorceresses for breakfast. what is it you're holding? a cookie. ah! one last dragon warrior smackdown. oh! ah! we're not so different, you and i. skadoosh. stand back. i'm gonna kick my butt. violence, violence. >> -- radical left -- >> we have ended the segment. we are going to move on to the second segment. >> keep your pain, man. >> proud boys, stand back, stand by. oh really? i send in the u.s. marshals to gets a killer, in the middle of the street, they got him. for three days, the president

didn't do anything. >> we have a transition -- this transition. the oil industry pollutes significantly. i said, here's the deal -- if you let me finish the statements. i never said i oppose frankie. >> you said it on tape. >> show the tape, put it on your website. put it on the website. the fact of the matter is, he's flat line. >> not since abraham lincoln has anyone dug what i've done for the block community. you had done nothing other than the -- bill. >> oh god. >> oh god's right. i'm telling you, why debate that guy? first of all, he doesn't debate anyone else. he doesn't debate republicans, he doesn't debate gayle e., he doesn't debate anyone. as the wall street journal opinion paints said a few weeks ago, what is trump going to do? say, oh, joe biden, he is afraid to debate me when donald trump has been living in fear of debating a kayleigh now for months. second thing is, the guy lies.

he makes things up all the time. you know, it doesn't make sense. anyhow, alexi, in your piece, you wrote in part, this. i re-watched the 2020 trump biden debate moderate by chris wallace, and it only comfort for me that biden shouldn't do it again. my neck was sore from shaking my head so much. skipping a debate with trump, which, to be clear, is not something the biden campaign is proposed to -- has proposed doing, would be consistent with its selective media -- is also -- passionately made a case for them in 2012 post op-ed saying debates, another televised presentations, are conductive to honestly explaining some more complex topics. still, i'm not convinced another trump biden campaign would be worth it. one trumps on the stage, inches voters can't expect must honest explanation about anything. they also can't expect any rational discussion of the issues that are most important to them.

>> those clips you showed, all i'm stressed internally from the cross top. i hate conflict, i hate this. you can barely even get a word in edgewise. i could barely understand what they're discussing. when joe biden will try to answer a question in good faith, trump would give him maybe 3 to 5 seconds, and then jump in with sec something totally derail-y nets. he is more erratic than aber. the hunter biden issue, the trials, the investigations, every other word from trump would be screaming about hunter biden, the corrupt biden family, it would be a disaster for everyone, not helpful to any voters. plus, people know their characters. i think a debate between trump and biden would mostly just show their personality and character at this point. everybody knows exactly who these two men are, so we don't need to excruciating hours of them yelling over each other. >> and peter baker, with donald trump, he has become more erratic, he has become more radical. he has become louder over the

past several years. and he plays by absolutely no rules. it seems to me, if you're going to have a debate that enlightens and informs, you have to have two people. let's go back to 2012. you have to have barack obama and mitt romney who at least followed basic guidelines. so people can learn about the issues and the candidates. we would not have that here with donald trump. >> part of the problem is that a debate is meant to test candidates, and to show whether they have command of the issues, and to force them to answer questions that are uncomfortable. so if we don't have a debate, fine, but are they're going to be other opportunities for us to do that with these two people, these two men? that's a real problem. neither one of them, frankly, is taking questions from hard questioners. donald trump did give an interview to chris walker for meet the process, and joe biden has, from time to time, given interviews to -- from others, on this network, for instance. broadly speaking, neither one

of them are doing interviews, and taking questions in a hard way from reporters that previous generations have. that's a real problem. >> next, one of the greatest basketball players ever to emerge from the bluegrass state talks about his rise to stardom, and his fall into debilitating addiction. our conversation with -- chapman is next. with -- chapman is next. let's dive in! but...what about your back? it's fineeeeeeee! [splash] before advil: advil dual action fights pain two ways. advil targets pain at the source, acetaminophen blocks pain signals. advil dual action. when moderate to severe ulcerative colitis takes you off course. put it in check with rinvoq, a once-daily pill. when i wanted to see results fast, rinvoq delivered rapid symptom relief and helped leave bathroom urgency behind. check. when uc tried to slow me down... i got lasting, steroid-free remission with rinvoq. check. and when uc caused damage rinvoq came through by visibly repairing my colon lining.

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at one point, right after i finished playing, in about 2001, i was taking about 50 vicodin and ten oxycontin a day. >> what? >> ten oxycontin, one equals like seven vicodin, so 100 pills today, just showing them up, getting them in my system faster, never with water, anything like that. >> you! >> it's a good thing that i am not really a drinker and i was not drinking. i would've died for sure. >> that's former nba star rex chapman. in 2019, he discussed his addiction to opioids.

chapman got sober in 2014 after his arrest for shoplifting earlier that year. it resulted in 18 months probation sentence. he details all of this and much more in his new memoir titled it's hard for me to live with me. rex joins us now. it's so great to have you on the show. i've been a fan of yours as a basketball player and a fan for a very long time and following your journey since your days in basketball. big picture here to sit down and put all of this down on the page to spill it and talk through it, what did it feel like? was it therapeutic? was it difficult? why did you want to tell the world about the story? >> thank you for having me on. i'm a big fan, have been for a long time. this book is tough. i didn't realize how tough it would be to write it antigo through this process with seth davis, who is terrific. i feel a bit conflicted sitting here today being celebrated for screwing up my life in a

spectacular fashion. it's also a very tough time for my family. my ex-wife is a rock star. this is opening up a lot of old wounds, maybe some new ones publicly. i need to acknowledge that before we go further. i am hopeful this book will help my kids, help them see me in a different, better light going forward, doing things differently than i used to, and for others. i know that when i was going through the depths of it, i was willing to listen to anyone. sometimes, just the smallest thing can make a difference. you can listen to somebody. it can change your whole outlook. you can be on your way. that certainly happened with me. >> rex, great to see you again. congratulations on the book. so many people know you for your basketball but also your twitter persona. you've become such a popular follow, spreading good news. i know this book is a lot of difficult news, as you said. tell us about how you first

developed this problem and some of your path to get out of it. >> yeah, i grew up pretty much wide open, just running around crazy, playing basketball, jason girls, go into the racetrack. i didn't realize that my going to the track, which i had done it with my dad since i was little, i didn't realize that was something that not all dads did. i thought everybody does that. that's what men do when they grow up. they gambled, they do all of that stuff. i didn't realize it when i was doing it, most of the time, i was running from another problem that i had. i could get away for four or five hours, get into the racing forum and escape. it's not healthy for me. i would do it all the time. you lose money. you chase money. when i finished playing, i had a huge void to fill, i believe, and i started filling that right away when i got out of playing. i had appendicitis and the doctor gave me oxycontin. in two days, i was in love. i was off to the races. i never touched a basketball

again. i had three more years on my contract. i lost interest in everything else and spiraled. >> rex, writing the book, sitting down and writing the book, even with seth working with you, that is a a long, dark tunnel that you are coming through writing that book. did you hate the person that you were writing about when you were writing about him? >> that is spot on. i still do. you know, i think i had kind of gotten past a lot of that stuff, the guild and the shame and all of that stuff. going through this process over the last two years has brought a lot of that flooding back. i had a panic attack in college over something that was unrelated to basketball and i had forgotten about it for years and years. i remembered it during the writing of this book and thought it was poignant and should put it in there. about six months ago when we were wrapping up this project,

i had another panic attack. fortunately, my girlfriend when he was there. she took great care of me for a few days. some of this stuff is hard to talk about and i think i have compartmentalized a lot of, it tried to -- i stole from an apple store. every now and then, i sit with that and go, how? what? why? i would have never done something like that prior to drugs. i have to think. it has all come a flooding back but i also know that secrets are not good for me and if i can share some of my pain, hopefully some of us will get something from it. >> up next, back to the future is now a broadway musical. we will speak with the stars of the show ahead. show ahead. and get one free. just scan the qr code

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plays doc brown, and casey likes, who takes on the role of marty mcfly. my family saw this. my kids absolutely adored it. great fun. i have to ask, what is the challenge, roger, of taking on such iconic characters and bringing them to life on stage. >> it's a real privilege to do that. the reason they are iconic, of course, is because they are so well written and so well performed. they are usually in giant hits. christopher lloyd is a very special actor. every time you see him, it's something you can't ever forget. he is a fantastic guy and i will never be able to do exactly what he does, but i try to lift the fun things that he brings to the screen and make them my own. it's a great honor to do it. >> casey, same question to you. michael j. fox, the cast gave their blessing to this. >> yeah. talk to us about what it was like stepping into this

character and what you have learned. >> i really, it's funny because i have been given the privilege of doing it, and so as roger, doing a lot of characters that come with a large expectation from a lot of fans. i think every time that i do that, i think you have to figure out what makes those character so iconic. i think what i wanted to do is i wanted to take what michael it did, distill it down into whatever made him so special, and take the things that make me so special and mold them into one character. when people see that you respect what they love, i think they are willing to go on your journey and try something new. >> not that it matters to anyone, but the clip that we showed coming in here, it made me want to go see the play tonight. >> yeah. >> the press team did a good job.

>> it was incredible. let me ask you both, the adaptation of the screenplay and this iconic movie, as you have pointed out, to the stage, how difficult was that? how true is it to the movie? >> well, bob and our director john rando and the design team really tried to create the first part of the back to the future series, so we basically do that story and we've added a bunch of songs that are new, wonderful songs. you know, the, they were very masterful and trying to recreate the feeling for a lot of people who saw back to the future the first time back in 1985 and recreate the experience for people who had seen it back in the day or for people who are seeing it for the first time. we pretty much stick to the original first part. >> it is very close to what you know and love. it's also a different show

every night because we can't always stay on script which is, fun. it's me trying to keep up with him. every single night, -- >> what show are you doing? >> it's like the bible. >> it really is. >> we really respect the rioters. >> that does it for the sunday edition of morning joe: weekend. thank you for joining us. we will see right back here tomorrow morning at six a.m.. msnbc's the weekend starts right now. good morning. it is sunday, march 3rd. i'm alicia menendez here in new york with simone sanders- townsend and michael steele in washington, d.c.. we will get you set for a monumental week in politics as super tuesday could be a decisive moment for the